I own a 2002 Ford Taurus with 175,000 miles.  It recently stopped
running with very odd symptoms.

My local non-dealer Ford specialist diagnosed the problem as collapsed
innards in the Catalytic Converters ($3400).  This is much more than
the car is worth given its overall condition.

Why so high?  Because CA uses a different catalytic converter than the
rest of the country (I could buy the 49-state version for $250 on
eBay), and because CA smog rules prohibit the installation of anything
other than a brand new product, purchased from the manufacturer.  3rd
party products are not permitted.  A nearly new one from a crashed/
junked car of the same vintage is not permitted either.

So, I seem to be SOL.  Any suggestions?

Aye, that sucks.  Lots of good used cars out there, if you're willing
to bite the bullet and think long-term.  I wouldn't bother putting the
$3,400 into the vehicle.

What would you do if you had a few wrenches and a steel rod about 3'
long?
 -----

- gpsman

Got a buddy at a junkyard?  How could one tell the difference between a
lightly used factory part and a brand new factory part with 5000 miles
on it by the time inspection rolls around?

I am not one to normally advise doing something Highly Illegal like
this, but geez, when a law is SO stupid...

Alternately, you could sell the car as is to someone outside CA and stay
within the law.

That all said, is the engine burning any oil or having any other
problems?  One doesn't want to spend lots of $$$ on new cats and then
find out that the new ones go bad in a year or two.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Selling that car for s***might give you somewhat of a down payment
on a used replacement car, with cost below the quoted $3400.

That sucks.  I just replaced (due to a failed California smog check) the
cats on one of my vehicles, but they cost only $200 each.  The car passed
on re-test.  My vehicle is also a Ford, but not manufactured this decade.
[Maybe the fact that my car was first sold on the east coast and therefore
was never a CA emission vehicle makes the difference.]  Perhaps someone is
overcharging?

BUT,is it more cost-effective for you to spend $3400 repairing it,or spend
more on a newer car that passes the smog test?

Can you buy a newer,smog-passing car for $3400?
(and possibly inherit a whole new batch of problems costing even more...)

BTW,the reason the cat's innards collapsed is probably due to fuel control
problems that caused a rich condition,overheating the cat elements.
Like bad O2 sensors. Those only last about 60-100 K miles.
Did the auto tech give you a full printout of the stored OBD-II diagnostic
codes?

it would seem that if you pass the CA smog test,they don't check to see if
your equipment is all factory/CARB-approved.
Once you fail,THEN they check to see you only use CARB-approved parts.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Exhaust work in the driveway is a real pain in the ass, but how is the
state going to know if you just fix it yourself with a junkyard cat or a
49 state version?  A junkyard cat might be impossible to get because
they may be legally prohibited from selling it to you, but should a 49
state one work sufficently well not to trigger the MIL it should be
fine. I'm not sure how CA does its emissions testing these days but if
it's like IL's used to be, the most they'll do is look to see that one
is there.

Also, typically (as far as I know) the laws regarding forced replacement
with new OEM parts apply only to licensed auto repair shops. That is the
state forces it through granting the privilege of operating an auto
repair shop. Individual owners are under no such restriction.

In article

The catalytic converter melts when cylinders aren't firing or there's a
huge amount of oil in the exhaust.  You'd better figure out how much it
will cost to fix the original problem.

If the car is new enough to need the fancy cat, it should also have the
fancy sensors and onboard computer to prevent a meltdown.  But then most
smog shops say that Fords are the least likely to pass.

--
I will not see your reply if you use Google.

Thanks to the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia....

OR,maybe it's more than just the cat that needs replacing....

Or fuel;like if a O2 sensor failed and the car was in "limp home" mode,or
running overly rich.
He should have seen a CEL if that happened,though.

he could always get Autozone to read the OBD-II diagnostic codes for him,or
buy a code reader and DIY.

I suspect there's more than one trouble code set.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Consider the tooling costs and then paying for that tooling over the
number of units sold in CA. Then it's doubled by the distributor and
doubled again by the dealer and then another 50% or so is added on by
the independent mechanic. Then toss in labor. Don't forget inventory
costs either. Then there could be supply/demand issues if nobody
bothered making any more after the original amount of spares was
ordered.

Or $3200 in taxes?

A long shot, but try the Ford dealer.  They sometimes do extremely
strange things when it comes to CA smog.  I haven't heard of them
doing it with more than 150,000 miles on a car, but the prospect of
maybe getting you to do the other things to keep a cat from melting
where they can get the $$, and get the $3K from warranty rebates...
doesn't cost anything to find out the options.

Depends.  Never had to open up the engine in 205K miles on my '86 LSC,
just scheduled maintenance and they gave me a free cat at some point
(though I think it was less than 100K miles, I don't have the records
any more).

Don't know all the rules for when they start junking gas guzzler/smog
monsters, but there may be value there.

Well, TT for you!  :-)

jg

Ohmigawd, can't miss the train!

You never directly said that you were in California.

If you are, what county?

I forgot to add, it might be worth dropping the cats and visually
inspecting them.

A few years ago, I was living in Michigan.  One day my GTI 16V started
running badly literally three blocks from a VW dealer.  Despite my
misgivings about dealers in general and VW dealers in particular, I
dropped the car off at the VW dealer and took a cab home.  They
refused to touch the car until I authorized them to replace the
catalytic converter at a cost of something like $500.  Now I'd just
bought the car and knew that it had a brand new cat in it, so I
wouldn't.  We ended up at a stalemate where they refused to
troubleshoot the car and I refused to authorize replacement of the
cat.  Eventually I had the car towed to an independent VW specialist
in Ann Arbor and told the dealership that if they expected me to pay
for their "labor" (which seemed to consist of disconnecting my exhaust
system and leaving it disconnected) that they could retain a lawyer
and explain their side of the story in court.  The independent
diagnosed the problem as a burned valve, and I found a used head for
them which they installed.  They visually inspected the cat and told
me that it appeared to be brand new, which, of course, it was.  The
car ran fine until I sold it a few years later.

nate