How soon should you speed up

Nate Nage

How soon should you speed up

by Nate Nage » Wed, 27 May 2009 10:14:48


> When can you legally begin to speed up?

> For example:
> You're driving in a 30mph zone.  You see an upcoming sign that says
> 45mph.  According to the law, can you begin to speed up as soon as you
> can read that sign, or should you maintain 30mph until you are right
> at, or past that sign?  Just curious?

> I've been driving many years but I have never known how the law
> interprets this if they wanted to be picky about it.

> Personally, I usually start to gain speed as soon as I can read the
> sign and it's less than a city block away, but I never really reach
> the higher speed until I am past the sign.  (unless it's one of those
> rare places where the speed increase is rediculously small, like going
> from 25 to 30).

> LM

If you're ever in an area where they get a lot of revenue from a speed
trap, e.g. road going through a small town where the limit drops from 55
or 60 to 35 or lower and then goes back up again on the other side of
town, they generally interpret it that the limit is whatever the last
sign said until you are physically at the sign for the higher limit,
that is, if you are traveling at the 35 limit you can't increase your
speed above 35 until you pass the 55 sign.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://www.ringcar.com/

Alan Bake

How soon should you speed up

by Alan Bake » Wed, 27 May 2009 13:14:35





> >If you're ever in an area where they get a lot of revenue from a speed
> >trap, e.g. road going through a small town where the limit drops from 55
> >or 60 to 35 or lower and then goes back up again on the other side of
> >town, they generally interpret it that the limit is whatever the last
> >sign said until you are physically at the sign for the higher limit,
> >that is, if you are traveling at the 35 limit you can't increase your
> >speed above 35 until you pass the 55 sign.

> Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
> has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
> happen to be driving.

> 65
> --------------------------------------

> ======================================

> --------------------------------------
>                                     55

> In the example above, the eastbound side has a 65 MPH speed limit,
> whereas the westbound side has a 55 MPH limit.

Why is that the way it must be?

                    |65----1 mi-----|55 (speed signs for westbound)
 --------------------------------------
 <-------65---------|<-------55-------- (legal speed in zone)
 ======================================
 --------65-------->|--------55-------> (legal speed in zone)
 --------------------------------------
 65|-----1 mi---->55|                   (speed signs for eestbound)

Westbound traffic's speed is controlled by signs on the north side of
the road and eastbound traffic's by signs on the south side. Such signs
are only readable from one direction, so where does your scenario
actually play out?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

Bren

How soon should you speed up

by Bren » Wed, 27 May 2009 13:18:11


I drive a road that looks like this:

40                                  35
--------------------------------------
                            <-
======================================
                            ->
--------------------------------------
40                                  35  

By the sign theory NB is 40mph and SB is 35mph.

Most roads IME are set up like this:

                                    40                    35
------------------------------------------------------------
                                <-
============================================================
                                ->
------------------------------------------------------------
40                                  35

Alan Bake

How soon should you speed up

by Alan Bake » Thu, 28 May 2009 01:07:56









> >> >If you're ever in an area where they get a lot of revenue from a speed
> >> >trap, e.g. road going through a small town where the limit drops from 55
> >> >or 60 to 35 or lower and then goes back up again on the other side of
> >> >town, they generally interpret it that the limit is whatever the last
> >> >sign said until you are physically at the sign for the higher limit,
> >> >that is, if you are traveling at the 35 limit you can't increase your
> >> >speed above 35 until you pass the 55 sign.

> >> Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
> >> has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
> >> happen to be driving.

> >> 65
> >> --------------------------------------

> >> ======================================

> >> --------------------------------------
> >>                                     55

> >> In the example above, the eastbound side has a 65 MPH speed limit,
> >> whereas the westbound side has a 55 MPH limit.

> >Why is that the way it must be?

> Because in the real world they seldom place two SL signs directly
> opposite each other.

> >where does your scenario actually play out?

> Lots of places. In this example, there is a 65 MPH sign for the NB
> side at A and a 55 MPH sign for the SB side at B. Thus, the stretch
> between A and B has an asymmetric speed limit.

> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Irvine+Blvd&daddr=33...
> 117.706404&geocode=FXC0AQIdTfH7-A%3B&hl=en&mra=mi&mrsp=1,0&sz=15&sll=33.664032
> ,-117.711511&sspn=0.018645,0.038624&ie=UTF8&z=15

No. There is no such sign at the NB location. You know about Google
Street View, right?

And even if there were, so what? What is inherently dangerous about
traffic on the other side of the street traveling at a different speed?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

jtch..

How soon should you speed up

by jtch.. » Thu, 28 May 2009 03:36:35

I don't KNOW this for absolutely certain and cannot trivially find
anything in the vehicle code that explicitly states it, but have
always understood, and conservatively assumed, that a speed limit
takes effect at the sign.

When you think about it, this has to be the case -- it's the only
sharp, objective criterion in sight (no pun intended and not much of
one achieved).   No judgement calls, no individual differences in
distance vision (which can be considerable), no fudge factors for
weather conditions or lighting, no nothin' -- reach  the sign, obey
the sign.  (Or the Basic Speed Law, whichever triggers the more
conservative speed, of course.)

One legal layman's opinion, worth what you paid if your ISP is
inexpensive,
--Joe

SeaWo

How soon should you speed up

by SeaWo » Thu, 28 May 2009 08:01:48


My favourite example comes from England.- A45 to be exact.
West bound, just after the traffic lights at the airport freight
terminal access, the SL drops from 60 to 30, when you transition from
country to city build-up. It's about 100 yards of country road west of
the freight entry traffic lights. This happens on a curve.

Heading the other way, you have 100 yards of 60 MPH road (after the 30
mph bit) before before the traffic lights.

A friend in that section of the city governement explained that there
was less wordage this way.

Remember this when something involving govenmenbt arises. ....and it
ain't just England

MLOM

How soon should you speed up

by MLOM » Thu, 28 May 2009 09:50:50




> >If you're ever in an area where they get a lot of revenue from a speed
> >trap, e.g. road going through a small town where the limit drops from 55
> >or 60 to 35 or lower and then goes back up again on the other side of
> >town, they generally interpret it that the limit is whatever the last
> >sign said until you are physically at the sign for the higher limit,
> >that is, if you are traveling at the 35 limit you can't increase your
> >speed above 35 until you pass the 55 sign.

> Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
> has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
> happen to be driving.

> 65
> --------------------------------------

> ======================================

> --------------------------------------
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 55

> In the example above, the eastbound side has a 65 MPH speed limit,
> whereas the westbound side has a 55 MPH limit.
> --
> Speed is like *** at the scene of a pregnancy:
> It might be a factor but it's not the father.

Actually Nate is right.  The sign (in case of a speed zone change) is
the actual start point at which that posted speed is the highest legal
speed.  Generally where there is a change in speed limit, say from 55
to 35, the sign for the 35 zone will be directly across the road from
the opposite-facing 55 zone sign.  General rule is that when the
posted SL drops, you have to be slowed to that speed or below by the
time you reach that sign, and if it's increasing, it's illegal to
speed up until you are past that sign.  Most drivers have the habit of
speeding up early, and I have been stopped twice (both times by local
cops) for that bad habit (in both cases radared for 8 over).

In MO, most of the SL decreases over 10 mph are at city limits, in
which there's an advisory sign warning of such reduction.  Al least
Oklahoma is reasonable: the SL drops in 10-mph increments until
reaching the slowest zone, then increases in 10-mph increments at the
end of the slow zones.  That probably doesn't help the brake shop
industry.  :)

I have seen some exceptions to the alignment of speed zones.  North of
Springfield, part of MO 13 is posted 65 southbound and 60 northbound
due to the northbound lanes being on the old cowpath alignment (a
future project is expected to fix that).  On the north side of Milan,
route OO (as in double Oscar), a 2-lane road (which is adequate in a
town of 2,000), is posted 35 southbound from the city limit to the
overpass over MO 5 & 6, and 25 northbound.  The only reason I see for
that is that the housing density is higher on the east side of the
road.

MLOM

How soon should you speed up

by MLOM » Thu, 28 May 2009 11:46:43


> In message


> >Actually Nate is right. ?The sign (in case of a speed zone change) is
> >the actual start point at which that posted speed is the highest legal
> >speed. ?Generally where there is a change in speed limit, say from 55
> >to 35, the sign for the 35 zone will be directly across the road from
> >the opposite-facing 55 zone sign.

> That might be true in Misery, but it sure ain't true around here.

Also true in Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas...and certainly many
other locations.

Could be.  This gives another factor on why I only visited California
*once*.  :)  Just like emissions standards, there's the California
standard and the standard applicable to the other 49 states.

It just might be the difference between a warning or a citation.
Locals familiar with the area would be more likely to obey the missing
SL than visitors.  It would make a very tempting speed trap setup for
local authoritah.

Case in point: when the tornadoes hit Novinger and Kirksville, some of
the signs affected included the 55-mph speed limit sign at the exiting
side of the Novinger city limit on eastbound MO 6.  It wasn't a big
deal; the posted limit right before it was also 55 (the reduction/
increase to/from 45 is 1/2 mile west).

harry

How soon should you speed up

by harry » Thu, 28 May 2009 12:25:47





> > >If you're ever in an area where they get a lot of revenue from a speed
> > >trap, e.g. road going through a small town where the limit drops from 55
> > >or 60 to 35 or lower and then goes back up again on the other side of
> > >town, they generally interpret it that the limit is whatever the last
> > >sign said until you are physically at the sign for the higher limit,
> > >that is, if you are traveling at the 35 limit you can't increase your
> > >speed above 35 until you pass the 55 sign.

> > Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
> > has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
> > happen to be driving.

> > 65
> > --------------------------------------

> > ======================================

> > --------------------------------------
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 55

> > In the example above, the eastbound side has a 65 MPH speed limit,
> > whereas the westbound side has a 55 MPH limit.
> > --
> > Speed is like *** at the scene of a pregnancy:
> > It might be a factor but it's not the father.

> Actually Nate is right. ?The sign (in case of a speed zone change) is
> the actual start point at which that posted speed is the highest legal
> speed. ?Generally where there is a change in speed limit, say from 55
> to 35, the sign for the 35 zone will be directly across the road from
> the opposite-facing 55 zone sign. ?General rule is that when the
> posted SL drops, you have to be slowed to that speed or below by the
> time you reach that sign, and if it's increasing, it's illegal to
> speed up until you are past that sign. ?Most drivers have the habit of
> speeding up early, and I have been stopped twice (both times by local
> cops) for that bad habit (in both cases radared for 8 over).

> In MO, most of the SL decreases over 10 mph are at city limits, in
> which there's an advisory sign warning of such reduction. ?Al least
> Oklahoma is reasonable: the SL drops in 10-mph increments until
> reaching the slowest zone, then increases in 10-mph increments at the
> end of the slow zones. ?That probably doesn't help the brake shop
> industry. ?:)

> I have seen some exceptions to the alignment of speed zones. ?North of
> Springfield, part of MO 13 is posted 65 southbound and 60 northbound
> due to the northbound lanes being on the old cowpath alignment (a
> future project is expected to fix that). ?On the north side of Milan,
> route OO (as in double Oscar), a 2-lane road (which is adequate in a
> town of 2,000), is posted 35 southbound from the city limit to the
> overpass over MO 5 & 6, and 25 northbound. ?The only reason I see for
> that is that the housing density is higher on the east side of the
> road.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

In my little town (2,000 pop) there was (I think still is, been
awhile) a stretch of about 1/2 mile where W bound is 35 or 25
depending upon which leg of a T you came off of.  E bound is 35.  I
never heard of anyone getting ticketed in that stretch...or at least
getting ticketed and fighting it.

Harry K

Ashton Crushe

How soon should you speed up

by Ashton Crushe » Thu, 28 May 2009 14:01:23

On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:18:44 -0700, Scott in SoCal








>>> >If you're ever in an area where they get a lot of revenue from a speed
>>> >trap, e.g. road going through a small town where the limit drops from 55
>>> >or 60 to 35 or lower and then goes back up again on the other side of
>>> >town, they generally interpret it that the limit is whatever the last
>>> >sign said until you are physically at the sign for the higher limit,
>>> >that is, if you are traveling at the 35 limit you can't increase your
>>> >speed above 35 until you pass the 55 sign.

>>> Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
>>> has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
>>> happen to be driving.

>>> 65
>>> --------------------------------------

>>> ======================================

>>> --------------------------------------
>>>                                     55

>>> In the example above, the eastbound side has a 65 MPH speed limit,
>>> whereas the westbound side has a 55 MPH limit.

>>Why is that the way it must be?

>Because in the real world they seldom place two SL signs directly
>opposite each other.

>>where does your scenario actually play out?

>Lots of places. In this example, there is a 65 MPH sign for the NB
>side at A and a 55 MPH sign for the SB side at B. Thus, the stretch
>between A and B has an asymmetric speed limit.

>http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Irvine+Blvd&daddr=33...

Regardless, the controlling factor is where the sign is at and what it
says.  You won't get out of a ticket by saying "The speed limit in the
OTHER direction was higher." anymore then you'd be able to say "the
speed on the OTHER highway was higher."
gpsma

How soon should you speed up

by gpsma » Thu, 28 May 2009 14:20:00


If there is an advisory sign you might be surprised how often lifting
off the throttle at it results in arriving at the reduced speed limit
sign 1 mph of that reduced speed.

I know a lot of people don't have that kind of time to waste, but I
found it curious when I discovered it circa 1970.
 -----

- gpsman

Alan Bake

How soon should you speed up

by Alan Bake » Thu, 28 May 2009 16:27:10





> >No. There is no such sign at the NB location.

> Care to place a small wager on that?

> >You know about Google Street View, right?

> Yes, and I also know that the Street View coverage ends before
> reaching the sign. Which brings up the question of how you managed to
> reach the conclusion that there's no sign there, since you have
> absolutely no evidence one way or the other.

You're wrong. Would you like to see the screen shot?

Then why are we even discussing this?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

Alan Bake

How soon should you speed up

by Alan Bake » Fri, 29 May 2009 05:51:15









> >> >No. There is no such sign at the NB location.

> >> Care to place a small wager on that?

> >> >You know about Google Street View, right?

> >> Yes, and I also know that the Street View coverage ends before
> >> reaching the sign. Which brings up the question of how you managed to
> >> reach the conclusion that there's no sign there, since you have
> >> absolutely no evidence one way or the other.

> >You're wrong. Would you like to see the screen shot?

> Put your money where your mouth is. If you make it worth my while,
> I'll go out there with a camera and take a picture of the sign for
> you.

<sigh>

<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Irvine+Blvd&daddr=33.66
2396,-117.706404&geocode=FXC0AQIdTfH7-A%3B&hl=en&mra=mi&mrsp=1,0&sz=15&sl
l=33.664032,-117.711511&sspn=0.018645,0.038624&ie=UTF8&ll=33.665912,-117.
706251&spn=0,359.997854&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.666108,-117.706235&panoi
d=2qUAZg-urryF8HcQ2AdpvA&cbp=12,28.29,,0,-4.9>

There is the link to Google Street View, looking north on Irvine Blvd
from just immediately south of the point where you claim there is a
speed limit sign (the "A" symbol on the inset map is your position "A".

So where is this sign you claim exists?

So what did mean by:

"Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
happen to be driving."

Why can't it be right, Scott? If not a safety issue, then what?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

Ashton Crushe

How soon should you speed up

by Ashton Crushe » Fri, 29 May 2009 12:50:17

On Wed, 27 May 2009 20:26:00 -0700, Scott in SoCal




>>So where is this sign you claim exists?

>Show me the money, and I'll show you the sign.

>>So what did mean by:

>>"Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
>>has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
>>happen to be driving."

>>Why can't it be right, Scott? If not a safety issue, then what?

>It's illogical.
>It's annoying.
>It's stupid.

>There is NO good reason why a straight, flat, totally symmetric road
>should have a 10 MPH higher speed limit on one side vs. the other.
>NONE.

Maybe it's simply because that was the best place to fit the signs
into the shoulder area.  Maybe they allowed the SL to be "too high" on
one side.  It would be a very rare case where the exact location where
a speed limit rises or falls would be of any great significance give
or take a quarter to half mile one way or the other.  An easy example
of where it IS a concern that the speed limit be "matched" would be
the typical school zone.
harry

How soon should you speed up

by harry » Fri, 29 May 2009 12:53:28




> >So where is this sign you claim exists?

> Show me the money, and I'll show you the sign.

> >So what did mean by:

> >"Which can't be right, because that would mean the same section of road
> >has two different speed limits depending on which side of it you
> >happen to be driving."

> >Why can't it be right, Scott? If not a safety issue, then what?

> It's illogical.
> It's annoying.
> It's stupid.

> There is NO good reason why a straight, flat, totally symmetric road
> should have a 10 MPH higher speed limit on one side vs. the other.
> NONE.
> --
> Speed is like *** at the scene of a pregnancy:
> It might be a factor but it's not the father.

I have a 1/4 mile stretch of state highway in town that had 35 one way
but 25 the other for years. Today I checked an it now is a 2 block
stretch that is westbound 35 or 25 depending from which leg of a T you
entered but all 35 eastbound.  Of course that is stupid.

There is also a 7 mile stretch of US95, the Lewiston Hill, that is 55
down but 65 up.  Not stupid there as it is a 4 lane (non-divided) and
the 'down' is restricted due to the steep grade.

Harry K