"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

DanKMT

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by DanKMT » Wed, 20 May 2009 23:25:22


> In message


> >Score one for our friends across the pond with this scathing review of
> >the new Honda Insight...

> >http://www.ringcar.com/

> >"So far, though, you have not been told what its like as a car; as a
> >tool for moving you, your friends and your things from place to
> >place.

> >So here goes. Its terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst
> >new car money can buy. Its the first car Ive ever considered
> >crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didnt have to drive it any
> >more."

> I had a similar reaction when I drove a Prius.

> Hmmm... I can sacrifice handling, acceleration, and any pretense of
> having fun while driving and get 42 MPG, or I can settle for 30 MPG on
> the freeway and drive a Corvette.

> Tough choice.

Awesome read, thanks.  "Its worse than the sound of your parachute
failing to open" - priceless.  If I really needed to get really good
mileage, I'd just get a turbo diesel...
Dave

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by Dave » Thu, 21 May 2009 00:39:28

Can't comment on the Insight specifically, but the person writing the
article about the Honda should have been better informed and/or experienced
prior to testing it.  A CVT is an odd kind of beast.  The first time you
drive one, it will feel very strange indeed.   It's like the opposite of any
vehicle you've ever driven.  In a regular "car", the engine revs to make the
car go faster.  In a CVT, the transmission adjusts to make the car go
faster.  The engine speed might ramp up, but it's nowhere near linear in
relation to ground speed.  This can lead to a kind of disconnect between the
car and the driver, especially if the driver is experienced.  It can also
get you in huge trouble if you aren't careful.  That's because a
well-designed vehicle with a CVT will feel exactly the same whether it is
going 60MPH or 90MPH.  You might get a little extra wind noise, but the
engine will sound the same, there is no feeling/vibration to clue you into
the fact that you are still accelerating.

I personally like CVTs.  Are they perfect?  No.  But they accelerate better
than most manual trannies, and require no shifting, just like a regular
automatic ***.  CVTs could rule Nascar events, if they were beefed up a
bit.  The reason CVTs aren't known for stellar performance is that they are
usually used on really tiny economy cars not designed for performance.

Bashing the Insight for being equipped with a CVT shows that the reviewer is
(sadly) misinformed.  If you hate the vehicle with a CVT, you'd really hate
it with a manual *** or a regular automatic.  It will perform best with a
CVT, regardless of the engine/motor that drives it.  -Dave

AZ Noma

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by AZ Noma » Thu, 21 May 2009 02:27:52


>In message


>>Score one for our friends across the pond with this scathing review of
>>the new Honda Insight...

>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article62941...

>>"So far, though, you have not been told what it?s like as a car; as a
>>tool for moving you, your friends and your things from place to
>>place.

>>So here goes. It?s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst
>>new car money can buy. It?s the first car I?ve ever considered
>>crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn?t have to drive it any
>>more."
>I had a similar reaction when I drove a Prius.
>Hmmm... I can sacrifice handling, acceleration, and any pretense of
>having fun while driving and get 42 MPG, or I can settle for 30 MPG on
>the freeway and drive a Corvette.

you mispelled chevette.

The only way you'll see more than 20MPG with a corvette is rolling downhill
drafting a semi with the engine shut off.

necromancer - ECH

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by necromancer - ECH » Thu, 21 May 2009 03:52:51



If I were really that concerned about gas mileage, I'd quit driving.

--
necromancer - ECHM

DanKMT

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by DanKMT » Thu, 21 May 2009 04:35:46



> >In message


> >>Score one for our friends across the pond with this scathing review of
> >>the new Honda Insight...

> >>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article62941...

> >>"So far, though, you have not been told what it?s like as a car; as a
> >>tool for moving you, your friends and your things from place to
> >>place.

> >>So here goes. It?s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst
> >>new car money can buy. It?s the first car I?ve ever considered
> >>crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn?t have to drive it any
> >>more."
> >I had a similar reaction when I drove a Prius.
> >Hmmm... I can sacrifice handling, acceleration, and any pretense of
> >having fun while driving and get 42 MPG, or I can settle for 30 MPG on
> >the freeway and drive a Corvette.

> you mispelled chevette.

> The only way you'll see more than 20MPG with a corvette is rolling downhill
> drafting a semi with the engine shut off.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

I'm not so sure.  My parents caddy (the "commuter/roadtrip/non-work
car" as the primary is a F250) gets ~28MPH on the highway on cruise.
A 'vette is more areodynamic, both are large V8's, I don't see why a
'vette wouldn't get 30+.  My truck, a 3.0L V6 4x4, gets well over 20,
and it's about as aero as, well...  a truck.  without a bed cap.
jtch..

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by jtch.. » Thu, 21 May 2009 09:54:34

From occasional viewings of his show "Top Gear" when life connects me
with a cable setup that carries it, I figure Jeremy Clarkson's main
mission to be entertainment, and his strategy to consist of polarizing
opinions and hyperbolic commentary.

Reviews I've read of the Insight suggest that it's no rival to either
Cadillac or his beloved Ferraris  (much of the criticism seems focused
on the powertrain) but  "the worst new car money can buy" is quite a
statement.  Perhaps the main question will turn out to be how it
differs in price, fuel economy, and perceived value for the money,
compared to both the Prius (which it is supposedly calculated to
undercut) and the Civic Hybrid.

That was my impression after renting a (conventionally powered) CVT
car last year, my first experience with such.  An hour or so
distracted by freeway traffic made me forget about its oddness, and
after two or three days I realized I was no longer thinking about it.
A CVT and a hybrid might be an especially interesting combination at
first.

--Joe

John David Gal

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by John David Gal » Thu, 21 May 2009 13:57:00


> From occasional viewings of his show "Top Gear" when life connects me
> with a cable setup that carries it, I figure Jeremy Clarkson's main
> mission to be entertainment, and his strategy to consist of polarizing
> opinions and hyperbolic commentary.

90% of the time the show bores me to tears.  Then there was the episode
featuring Soviet-bloc cars, which was funnier than hell.  I suspect the
show that reviewed the Insight was more like that.

I suspect that Honda management's insights are like P.T. Barnum's.

AZ Noma

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by AZ Noma » Thu, 21 May 2009 13:39:29




>>The only way you'll see more than 20MPG with a corvette is rolling downhill
>>drafting a semi with the engine shut off.
>Heh heh - shows what you know, fool.

Shows that you're living in a fantasy world if you think a heavyweight
car with an enormous engine can get 30mpg.
AZ Noma

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by AZ Noma » Thu, 21 May 2009 13:40:20


>In message


>>> The only way you'll see more than 20MPG with a corvette is rolling downhill
>>> drafting a semi with the engine shut off.

>>I'm not so sure.  My parents caddy (the "commuter/roadtrip/non-work
>>car" as the primary is a F250) gets ~28MPH on the highway on cruise.
>>A 'vette is more areodynamic, both are large V8's, I don't see why a
>>'vette wouldn't get 30+.  
>Not only that, it has a 0.570 6th gear ratio, which means the engine
>is basically idling at 65 MPH. Try THAT with a typical hamster-powered
>econobox. :)

Sure.  Idling while being fed 10gph.
Dave

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by Dave » Thu, 21 May 2009 15:14:30

You are misinformed.  I used to drive American muscle cars exclusively,
fine-tuned by one of the best mechanics in North America.  There are two
reasons to squeeze more horsepower per CI out of an engine.  One reason is
performance, the other is fuel economy.  They go hand in hand.  If you
increase performance but don't change your driving style, your fuel economy
increases.  It wouldn't shock me at all to learn that a Corvette will do
30MPG on the highway.  I got that with a Oldsmobile V8 four-barrel Cutlass
Cruiser I used to own.  Always got a tad over 30MPG highway with it.  It was
about as aerodynamic as a brick, also.  If any recent Corvette couldn't
match the fuel economy of that Oldsmobile I owned, there would be something
seriously wrong with the Corvette.  -Dave

Dave

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by Dave » Thu, 21 May 2009 15:17:30


> On Tue, 19 May 2009 20:33:49 -0700, Scott in SoCal



> >>The only way you'll see more than 20MPG with a corvette is rolling
downhill
> >>drafting a semi with the engine shut off.

> >Heh heh - shows what you know, fool.

> Shows that you're living in a fantasy world if you think a heavyweight
> car with an enormous engine can get 30mpg.

Many do.  I owned one myself.  A 76 Cutlass Cruiser V8.  Always got a little
over 30MPG highway.  Was scary fast too, at least for a family sedan.  Had
been beefed up for military use before I bought it, and was further tweaked
by my mechanic friend, though not significantly altered.  -Dave
Premier Bus

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by Premier Bus » Thu, 21 May 2009 17:46:20



>> From occasional viewings of his show "Top Gear" when life connects me
>> with a cable setup that carries it, I figure Jeremy Clarkson's main
>> mission to be entertainment, and his strategy to consist of
>> polarizing opinions and hyperbolic commentary.

> 90% of the time the show bores me to tears.  Then there was the
> episode featuring Soviet-bloc cars, which was funnier than hell.  I
> suspect the show that reviewed the Insight was more like that.

I like those Soviet Packard-clone ZIL limos.
Premier Bus

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by Premier Bus » Thu, 21 May 2009 18:12:38


> On Tue, 19 May 2009 20:33:49 -0700, Scott in SoCal



>>> The only way you'll see more than 20MPG with a corvette is rolling
>>> downhill drafting a semi with the engine shut off.

>> Heh heh - shows what you know, fool.

> Shows that you're living in a fantasy world if you think a heavyweight
> car with an enormous engine can get 30mpg.

The 505 horsepower, 7.0 liter (427 cid!) LS7 engine in the Z06 Corvette is
EPA rated at 24 MPG.  500 horsepower and no gas guzzler tax.  My uncle's
5.3L V8 powered GMC truck got about 25 on the highway.  So it's definitely
possible that a new 5.7-6.0-6.2 liter Vette could attain 30 MPG with the 6
speed manual.  But only with a very light foot.  If you drive it hard the
mileage will drop considerably.

The GM LS series V8 engine is an engineering marvel.  Instead of using newer
OHC technology, they used the tried-and-true pushrod engine, and perfected
it.  Power and economy.  What an engine.

Craig Zen

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by Craig Zen » Thu, 21 May 2009 21:56:34



>> In message


>>> Score one for our friends across the pond with this scathing review of
>>> the new Honda Insight...
>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article62941...
>>> "So far, though, you have not been told what it s like as a car; as a
>>> tool for moving you, your friends and your things from place to
>>> place.
>>> So here goes. It s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst
>>> new car money can buy. It s the first car I ve ever considered
>>> crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn t have to drive it any
>>> more."
>> I had a similar reaction when I drove a Prius.

>> Hmmm... I can sacrifice handling, acceleration, and any pretense of
>> having fun while driving and get 42 MPG, or I can settle for 30 MPG on
>> the freeway and drive a Corvette.

>> Tough choice.

> Awesome read, thanks.  "It s worse than the sound of your parachute
> failing to open" - priceless.  If I really needed to get really good
> mileage, I'd just get a turbo diesel...

This is true.  Bag the fancy hydrid stuff and gimme modern compression
ignition.
Bren

"Possibly the worst new car money can buy"

by Bren » Thu, 21 May 2009 21:57:45


I guess 1930s technology (OHC) is 'newer' than push rods, but they are
both many decades old.